How to Price Your Services- Strategies for Sustainable Growth and Profitability for Digital Businesses

Eric Dingler: All right. Here we go. If you set your prices wrong, it’s going to keep you chasing a future you can never reach. In this episode, I’m going to share with you the top ten mistakes. Actually, I’m not. Setting your prices wrong will keep you. Well, my friends, setting your prices wrong will keep you chasing a future you can never reach. In this episode, I’m going to share the top eight mistakes to avoid when setting your pricing and what you can do for each to ensure you’re getting your numbers right. Welcome to the Digital Nomad Entrepreneur podcast. My name is Eric. I’m a full time digital nomad entrepreneur traveling around the world with my wife and four kids. And I produce this podcast to help digital entrepreneurs optimize their online business for revenue, profit and location independence. Based on what’s working for me and the real world, I’m not reading books, taking courses and regurgitating something that somebody else has learned. And I’m not even just taking something that I’ve done once and extrapolating that out to. This is this is how it works. Nope. This podcast is based upon, like I said, what’s working for me in a couple of businesses as well as other businesses that I am helping as a coach. So if you are wanting to improve your digital business so you have the freedom to be more location independent, whether that means traveling full time or just taking more vacations, working from your favorite coffee shop, whatever that looks like for you, you are in the right place, my friend. Well, this is episode 14 and it’s part of a series. This is part four of a series that I’m doing where I’m walking through the five business processes in a little bit more detail. Now I explain these five business processes and how they help you move through the six stages of business. Back in episode three. But here what I’m doing as I’m walking through each one and a little bit of a little bit more detail. So the first episode in this series was part one, obviously, which is leadership. You have your your business will not go beyond your capacity to lead, to lead, even if you’re a business of one, if you’re a solopreneur, but you don’t have great time management skills, you don’t have a process in place to discern the difference between what is absolutely critical to work on and what you’re leaning towards working on just because it’s fun or exciting to you, whatever it is from leading a team. If you’re if you be a solopreneur, you could have a team of 100. Your company’s capacity to grow is limited by your individual leadership capacity. So we talk a little bit about leadership. Then the second part of this is lead generation. Every dollar you’re ever going to make in business will start as a lead. And so we talk about lead gen and getting that right. And then part three of this was lead conversion. The metrics that matter in making more sales. Today, I’m going to talk about the fourth processes group of processes for business, which is collecting and managing money. And then in the next episode, we’ll talk about project management. So for this here, collecting and managing money, you know, again, that there’s a lot that goes into this process of business and it really depends upon the stage of your business. This looks, you know, collecting money looks very different from when you’re a weekend warrior through, you know, all the way up to a C-suite type business. And so I’m not going to get into the the details of that. I’m really going to focus on one aspect of this of of everything dealing with with budget and really where things start. And that’s setting your pricing. You’ve got to get your pricing right. And so I want to walk through eight kind of pitfalls to be aware of and how you can avoid making these mistakes. So I’ve got them listed one through eight. I’m going to walk through them here just real quickly for each one. So let’s get going. Number one, neglecting to do market research. Now, that idea may scare you off right off the bat. You may hear market research and go, I, I don’t know how to do that. I don’t have the time to do that. I’m not sure what that looks like. Well, it can be, again, starting out rather simple where, you know, if you’re a weekend warrior, a part of this is kind of just looking around to see what other people are. Doing that’s providing a similar service or product you’re doing. That’s one way to get started. It’s not a long term strategy, though. All right. It’s not a long term strategy that that really is, though, a good way to get started. Now, once you get larger and grow, you can get into more in-depth looks of, you know, looking at industry trends, market trends, analysis. And you’re actually able to. The better you get at marketing, the more you’re able to increase your pricing and and things like that. Plus, you’re going to be looking at, you know, quantity and and just there’s a whole bunch of factors that go into that. But to keep it this simple, you have to do your market research. You just can’t pull a number out of the air. That sounds right to you. There needs to be some things about it, and market research is just one of them. Now, the second on my list of eight is not adjusting prices over time. So many people I know are afraid to set the pricing because they have this idea that, well, once I set my pricing, my pricing is set, and nothing could be further from the truth. I adjust our, you know, with my digital marketing age, the insurance studios, we’re regularly adjusting our pricing, experimenting with different pricing, trying different things. You know, just because I show one person, one price doesn’t mean I have to show the next person the same price. It’s my company. I get to set the pricing and so I have total control over that. Now there are some markets where there’s some regulations around this if you’re in, you know, financial markets, real estate, things like that. But in general, for most markets, you set your pricing really to be whatever you want. But also you’re not setting this in and locking this this in forever. You know, it’s it the larger the business is, the more complex it is to change pricing. Of course, you know, for something like a McDonald’s or a Papa John’s or a Domino’s Pizza or something like that, you know. But that’s you’re you’re not that that’s that’s not you. All right. And so don’t be afraid to adjust your pricing over time and play with your pricing, you know, adapt and evolve continuously based upon, you know, feedback changes and costs, market dynamics, all kinds of things. One time in this area, I was getting some one on one coaching from Mike Micklethwait and we were talking about I was talking about pricing in my closing rate and stuff like that and I was really excited because I had a super high closing rate. And without knowing much more than that, he simply said, you’re prices are too low. He goes, Your prices are way too. He goes, You’re selling all of these websites and you’re probably barely keeping your head above water. And I was like, Yeah, I thought I was having the I needed to go and sell more. And he was like, You need to start increasing your pricing right away. And the advice he gave me was increase it 20% every time I give a quote until I start getting pushed back to the point where I make my closes drop below 20%. And what I realized, what I discovered doing that was I closed more opportunities. But with fewer opportunities, we were making a lot more money because I was having to work less and the time I was working, we were making a higher profit margin. Then as I started to grow from all in stage of business, where it was just me into Team Builder, where I began hiring a team, I was, I then had the margins to be able to pay a team and pay myself and continue to work on growing the business. So don’t be afraid to adjust your pricing over time. You need to look at your pricing as something that’s very fluid. Okay. Number three, pitfall to avoid is you can’t ignore pricing psychology. Yet the mind, the psychology here, you’ve got to be a bit of a student of of human nature. And there’s a ton of great resources out there. I’m not going to get into all of it here, but you need to take into account how pricing influences perception and behavior and strategically using different pricing cues to your advantages. And there are tons of YouTube videos out there. There are people that are way better or worse than I am and the psychology of pricing. But there’s there’s reasons why prices do better when they end in a seven or a nine, depending on the industry and things like that. There are reasons why you you should consider showing your highest price as an anchor before you show. Let’s say let’s say you’re giving up like two or three options to somebody, you know, and and, you know, package, package B, package C package should be your anchor, your high price, and then B and C, but then maybe if you’re listing those on the website on a pricey plan, you might go the opposite direction. So there’s a lot in that. It’s worth spending some time studying that, watching some YouTube videos, listening to some audiobooks on it. But don’t ignore it. Become a student of pricing, psychology of human nature. Number four, failing to communicate value. You have to communicate value with your pricing. Your pricing can’t be connected to benefits or I’m sorry, too, features to features. Your pricing has to be connected to the benefits. I said that backwards. Your pricing has to be connected to benefits. The value of the benefit of what somebody is getting, that’s what somebody is buying. They’re buying that. There’s an old sales adage that nobody buys a three quarter inch drill bit. They buy the three quarter inch holes that the drill bit is going to make. And so I I’ve I’ve never met anybody that had to buy a tool for the sake of having the tool. I’ve met a lot of people and I’ve been one where I’ve had to buy a tool to accomplish something. I don’t have my MacBook because I needed a MacBook. I needed a tool to run my business that had high reliability, that as a digital nomad, I was I knew was going to be a workhorse, you know, for me and and have a length of, of life to it and, and all these things. And so that the Mac that my MacBook rose to the top of the list of best options for me and same for your customers buying something from you and you have to you have to demonstrate that you have to demonstrate the value that somebody is buying, not the thing they’re buying. I used to just tell people I used to send people a proposal when I was starting out, you know, I was building websites and I would send them a proposal that was, okay, here’s what you’re going to get. You’re going to get this minute, you’re going to get a ten page website. It’s going to be mobile responsive, it’s going to be dense, it’s going to be dense. It’s going to be this you get this number of revisions, you know, da da da da da, you know, 20 $700. Okay. And that went pretty good. And then though, as I tried to increase my pricing, I struggled, I got pushback and I and I lost more sales. And so I which was and in some ways turned out, you know, it was good. And that was following, you know, advice from point number two. And that was good. But then it reached a point where I knew I could be closing more. And so instead of adjusting my pricing, I started presenting my proposals different and I started connecting the service of getting the new website to the client, getting what they were looking for. And the moment I started doing that, we now build seven. Page websites and I charge, you know, five, six, $7,000 for something that, you know, the exact same thing that I used to struggle selling for more than $3,000. And the different the the only difference is how I present it. I communicate based on value. So as you’re setting your prices, make sure you’re constantly thinking of the value and that you’re connecting your prices to the value in the benefit. All right. Number five of eight. So they were blown right through this today. Number five, pitfall to avoid discounting too often. In fact, I used to be guilty of this again. Like I said, this whole podcast is about the real world experiences I have. I’ve paid all the, as Dave Ramsey would say, you know, stupid tax over time. I would often give a sales presentation and if somebody pushed back on the price, I would go, Well, you know, I know I said we could do it for 3300. What? What if we did it for 3000 2900? I would I would discount and I just don’t do that anymore. It’s been a long time since I’ve done that. Now what we do is we give last if they need to pay less. All right. If somebody needs to pay us less money, they simply get less from us. We do not discount. I just yesterday was meeting with an auctioneer and his wife and we went through the whole presentation and we got to the end and he had some really valid points about things. And he, you know, part of it was just like, you know, he’s he’s looking to retire in five years. He didn’t feel like they needed quite everything we put in and our typical, you know, package and and I agreed with him and he was, you know, but what I did is I still kept it all in the package. And then when we got to the price I was I was expecting him and he pushed back a little bit and he’s like, I just don’t know if I can do, you know, 497 a month, which was the quote for for some of our services. And I said, well, let’s let’s look at this. What if we got rid of this, this, this and this? And he was like, Oh, yeah, I would never use it. I’ll never use that. I’ll never use that. And I said, if we got rid of all the this, I could do the package for 397, which is where I my gut was telling me he was going to land and he was like, That sounds like something I can I can definitely do. And that is surprise me. You know, it’s real estate that’s working with anybody in the real estate world. You know, auctioneers, realtors, you know, it doesn’t matter. But we simply don’t discount anymore. And you shouldn’t either, you know, if you’re selling a service or product, if you quote somebody for editing. All right. We were getting a quote. I really you know, we’re launching a YouTube channel for in-transit studios. And I was getting some quotes for editing, post-production, editing, and I, you know, got the prices. And I wanted to negotiate a little bit because I want you know, I’m a business owner. I’m a small business owner. I need to get the best price I can. And the one guy, you know, I really liked him, but his price was a little bit higher than everybody else. And I just went back and was like, man, I can’t I can’t see doing that. I really want it to be at this amount per video. You know, I really wanted to be at this cost per video. And he was like, Oh, no worries. I completely understand. If we took away this, we can do it for that price. And I was like, I really like this guy. The other person. I was like, Oh, I don’t know. He was like, Well, yeah, I could do it for you, you know, for that, you know, we can do that for you. And I kind of was like, Whoa, wait a second. Do you have any idea? You know what? If you can’t, what if what if you discount this and then in three months you regret it? And I’m getting I start hitting crappy service because of it. I, I’m going to go with the other person that’s going to give me less. But he he’s going to give me less, but I’m paying less. And I have confidence that he’s going to continue to provide a great service because I’m paying for the service I’m getting. And so you need to do the same thing for yourself. If you’re quoting somebody, if somebody comes, want you to do some copywriting and and you’re offering them, you know, three revisions and they say, oh, I don’t know if I do that. I say, well, no worries, you know, I can do it for this, but you only get one revision. You’ll get to like, like set the set some limits. And one of the things you do is you can build something. We’ve got some things built into our packages and services that we can quickly fill out and lower the price. And if we don’t kill them out, the client still gets benefit from it. Don’t do anything shady, you know? But I know looking at our packages, we do like, well, we could get rid of this and this and this and people are, you know, still going to get and I I’m just blatantly and I’ll tell them it’s going to take three, maybe six more months for you to get the results you’re wanting to get. But we can get rid of these things, get the price to this and and go from there. Now, the other option is, sorry, that’s our price. And sometimes I say that to people like I’ll set a price for a website and they’ll get an, Oh, I just can’t afford that. And I’m like, I really understand, you know, I wish you the best of luck with That’s our price. But however you choose to do it, don’t do a discount. Don’t do a discount. All right. Number six, setting prices based solely on cost. Oh, my goodness. This is one of the biggest mistakes I see people make all the time. And there’s a lot of people out there that tell you to calculate how much money you want to make in a year. All right. How many hours you want to work in a week and how much you need to make per hour to get to that number? That is one of the worst pieces of advice on the Internet when it comes to setting your prices. You can’t set your prices solely on how much money you want to make, and you can’t set them solely on cost. Now, one of the parts of this, the sub parts of this, is people don’t actually understand what their costs are. And they say they look and say, I want or I need to make $8,000 a month to pay myself, to be able to have some money for travel, to be able to, you know, having, you know, have some help, you know, whatever, whatever their number may be. And that’s what they say. So, you know, I need, you know, you know, for clients, pain is $2,000 a month or a client’s pain. 1016 pain is five, whatever. And that’s that’s what they go and get. And the issue is that is so short sighted. Yes. You may need $8,000 next month. Okay. I’ll give you that. But if you’re in your twenties, thirties, even forties, eventually you’re going to want to retire. And so let’s say you’re hoping to retire at at 60. You know, you won’t retire or you want to retire at 60. Well, my friend, you still have 30 stinkin years, possibly of all of those months. How are you all of those months? How are you going to tell you you can’t look at setting your business budget based upon next month’s cost. That is so shortsighted. You need to price for profit. You need the price for profit. You need to make sure, you know, part of all of this is setting your business up as an asset that can be sold. But but even if you don’t do that, you need to price for profit. We have a couple of web small web design businesses that we’ve taken over. We really have purchased them. We’ve taken over from people that have worked for many years running their business just like this, looking at why need to make this much money per month. And they do that. And then they drove to try to get rid of their business, show the business. And they come to me and I go, Well, first off. You know, I’m not going to do the work. And so how much am I going to have to pay somebody to do the work you’re doing? That’s question number one. And then question number two is, let’s say your little Web design business is bringing in, you know, $5,000 a month in recurring revenue. Okay. But let’s say I got to hire a full time employee to take care of all of your clients, you know, or even a part time employee. What? Where am I getting any profit? How is my business benefiting from this? There’s nothing there to buy. I’m going to buy that from you. There’s there’s no business there, because when I do the profit and loss statement and put in the cost of paying somebody to do the thing, you’re like, why would I buy your job? Why would I pay you money? So you can get a big chunk of money that then the next day I got to go to work taking care of the thing I just bought from you. Now, of course, I have to take care of it as the owner, but I don’t want to go actually and start doing it Like, why would I buy you? Why? Why would I? Let’s say you let’s say let’s say you. You have a business painting houses and you make enough money to live or you make $100,000 a year painting houses. And you make more than that. But anyway, for argument’s sake, you make $100,000 a year for painting houses. Okay. And then you want me to buy your business now for $250,000? Well, wait a second. You want me to give you $250,000 so I can go start going to work 40 hours a week and only make $100,000? That does make any sense. I’ll just go out and start my own painting business like there’s nothing there. Now, if you come to me and you’ve got a business that’s making, you know, $400,000 a painting business make $400,000 a year, you’ve got a team that’s going out, you’ve got a system that’s recruiting, that’s getting business, you’ve got marketing that’s working, and you’re clearing $100,000 in profit after all of your expenses. All right. So you’ve you’ve got that. Well, for that, my friend, I will gladly pay you, you know, several hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy that business, because I can sit back, take that $100,000 of profit pay you with that payoff. The cost of buying the business from that. Okay, that that profit margin. And then I have a business at the end of it and I’m not having to go out and paint houses. So setting your prices solely on cost, like I said, is a huge mistake. I see people making the digital business world. They look at their costs for now, for next month. It’s so short sighted. You need to be setting costs that take into account the next, you know, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 years. It’s there’s no way. Doing so is not doing that is business ownership malpractise. You have to set your prices. That’s covering all of your costs. Your cost for client acquisition. Your clock. Your cost for operations, for taxes, for recruitment, for you know, you’ve got to set things so you’ve got cash flow reserves, equipment replacement, you know, savings retention, research and development acquisitions. There’s you got to price this properly. So that’s why one of the things that that I do is for each of the five areas of business leadership, lead gen, lead conversion, collecting, manage money and project management. I have five one on 190 minute coaching roadmaps, coaching roadmap sessions. And for this process I’ve got one on setting pricing and and what I do is I’ve got a Google spreadsheet that will work with you, that I’ll work with you over 90 minutes asking you questions, filling in some rows and stuff like that, filling in some some details and help you think through all of the cost, all of the costs, cost of goods sold. We’re going to figure out we’re going to dig in to all them, get all the little nitty gritty is the one times the recurring, all of that kind of stuff. Put it in there and then there’s a multiplier we’re going to talk through. Do you want to make a 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% profit margin? What can the what can the marketplace bear? And you put that in there, and it’s going to give you what you need to be charging for your services. So if you’re a digital services business website, you’re building websites, doing copywriting, coaching, consulting, whatever it is. Go to Danny podcast dot com. Scroll right down. You’ll see the 590 minute roadmap coaching sessions. Just register for the one on setting pricing and you can schedule for that and pay for that. And then we will jump on a call and set you up for pricing. All right. So these are the the the first six of eight. We’ve got two more to go. And so recapping real quick, you can’t neglect market research. You’ve got to make sure you’re adjusting pricing over time. You’ve got to mind the psychology. You’ve got to become a bit of a student of human nature. Human psychology four is you’ve got to show your worth. You’ve got to make sure you’re communicating value with your pricing. Number five, don’t discount. Just don’t do it. Don’t discount. Number six, we just talk about was setting prices solely on cost. Don’t do that. Price for profit for the long haul for long sustainable growth and profitability. All right. So two more. Number seven. Number eight. And then I bet this week’s leadership tip of the week, number seven is I see people that, quite honestly, they have imposter syndrome and they’re afraid to charge what they’re worth. You’ve got to have confidence in your pricing. Don’t be afraid to charge what you’re worth, believe in the value you provide, and stand by your pricing. And so just don’t be for it. Don’t you know, maybe you’re. There have been times I have sold things that we have literally never done before, but I knew I was confident that we were going to be able to do it, even if it meant hiring somebody else to do it. And I knew how much it was going to cost to hire them, and I just priced it properly and I sold it and that’s okay. Real estate agents don’t build the houses they sell, all right? It’s you don’t have to be the one that knows how to do the thing you’re selling. Find the people that know. Have some partnerships with people that know. And don’t be afraid to charge what you’re worth. What’s the value you are bringing? Be confident in your pricing. Number eight. My friend. Please don’t underprice yourself. Don’t underprice yourself. And I know you might be thinking. Wait. Isn’t that the same? Is is number seven now? Number seven comes out of a place of fear. Out of fear. Underpricing comes from the temptation to. To to win. If I have. It comes from a competitive nature. Okay. You want to you think that of. Well, if I if I’m charging $100, $500, $1,000 less than than my competitors, I’m going to win. And that’s just not true. That’s just not true. So you have to understand you have to decide what what you’re going to be. And if you if you do want to be the bargain option, then you better have very well-oiled systems, perfect systems. You need to have, you know. Bare bones are stripped down versions of of what you’re selling to be able to make the profit margin on it. But the issue the challenge with are not the challenge, but the issue with being in a race to the bottom is you just might win, and that’s not a good place to be. So you want to with number seven, don’t be afraid to charge what you’re worth. You know, you have to overcome that fear. Imposter syndrome, number eight, underpricing this, like I said, comes from a competitive nature where you think you’re going to win more by charging less. And it’s just not a great sustainable business model. All right, my friends, I do have a leadership tip of the week for you here. And if you are new, if this is your first episode listening. Thanks for being here. Thanks for listening up to this point. You might be thinking, why is he good about your leadership tip? Because your goes back to what I said at the beginning of the episode. Your capacity to lead determines the capacity of your business. And ultimately, if I’m going to help you optimize for revenue, profit, location, independence, I got to help you with your leadership. There’s no leadership is key to all of this working. So I want to talk to you for a second, especially if you are in the stage of business again. I’ve got a previous episode. I talk about this, but if you’re new to To My World, new to the podcast, there are six stages that a business, a digital business can go through and typically goes through. Stage one is the ideation. This is just where you’re dreaming. Then you’ve got a stage two weekend warrior. You’re, you know, you’re doing this, but you still a full 9 to 5. Then you go to the third stage of business and in the third stage of business I call this all in. This is where you pull the ripcord. You’re doing this all. It’s all on you. You’re all in your full time. This is your this is your baby, your whole kit and caboodle right here. Then number four, you move the team builder where you start to build a team, bro, to pull a team around you. Your business grows growing. Then you move the stage five, which is the C-suite C-suite suite. Stage business is what now you’re leading your business through leaders. There is a leader between you and the front line people on your team that are dealing with your customers. So once you have an entire leadership layer in place and you’re leading just those leaders, you’ve reached the C-suite level of business and then you can transition and move into the legacy stage where you’re leveraging all of your margins of money, time, your team. You’re you’ve got this amazing asset and tool that you can leverage to make significant impacts in the world. Now, I want to talk take a second to talk to you. If you are up to all in if you’re if you’re an ideation weekend warrior, all in or even in the beginning or midst of team building, you might be struggling with with team building. My leadership tip for you this week is a question I want you to ask yourself this question. In fact, I want you to write this question down and sometime soon go someplace different, maybe a different place in your your house or your Airbnb. If you’re like me, we might farm. We live out of Airbnbs, so maybe a different room, an Airbnb, maybe a new coffee shop, maybe maybe someplace in the area, you know, a park bench, wherever it is. But I want you to go and I want you to think through this question. I want you to give it serious thought. And I want you to write down some reflections on this. And the question is this are you the leader? Are you the leader that the team you want to lead wants to follow? Just think about that for a little bit. Let’s say you’re let’s say you’re sitting there, you’re thinking one day you want to have a top of the line, top notch, amazing, extremely talented project manager or as a chief operating officer or a a finance person, a chief financial officer, you know, whatever it is, even if it’s just you know, you want to have the most amazing, talented coder copywriters, whatever it is, whatever you want, even if, you know, it doesn’t matter any any position. Any position. And I’m assuming you want the best. Well, you know who the best wants to work for. The best wants to work for the best. The best want to work for really great leaders. They don’t want to work for people that are immature, that can’t lead themselves. They can’t set priorities, that can’t set and meet goals that they can’t. They don’t want to work with people that are wishy washy. They don’t want to you know, they don’t want to work for people that are that are playing a game. The people that are serious want to work for serious people are saying they don’t want to work for people that have you know, they can’t have a sense of humor. My team and I, we have a lot of fun together. But I also believe that my team believes that I’m serious about growing our business to achieve our goals. And so what you have to do is you need to take some time to ask, are you the leader that the team you want to lead wants to follow? If not now, you’ve got something to work on. And I’m telling you something right now, you’ve got something to work on. I hope we can still be friends, but you’ve got something to work on. You. We all do. I’ve got areas of myself and my leadership that I need to work on. So are you the leader? The team you want to lead, wants to follow? And let me let me throw in a little bit of a twist on this question. I trying to ask this question to my kids in a different way. I’ve got I’ve got four kids. Three of them are teenagers right now. So I appreciate all of your well-wishes and prayers and understanding. We’ve got three of our four kids are are our teenagers. And one of the questions I ask them on a regular basis is, are you the person that the person you want to marry is going to want to marry? That’s the question you need to ask yourself as a single person. Are you the person that you want to marry is going to want to marry? Because, you know, if you want to marry an amazing person that loves Jesus, has their act together, is a solid person, well, they’re only going to want to marry somebody that’s a solid person that loves Jesus, that has their act together, that can you know, keep the room clean, that they can, you know, like you got to think that through. And so I love this leadership. This is one of my favorite things about leadership. The leadership happens everywhere. And so when you learn to become a better leader for your business, you’re going to be a better leader in your home Literally, every, you know, leadership lesson that I have learned or that I teach, I can translate translate that into my own personal life and into my marriage, into my parenting. Like leadership is leadership. It’s it’s right now. And it takes a lifetime to 2 to 2 to master. We can constantly grow as leaders. So for you, for this podcast, for for building your business, are you the leader, the team you want to lead wants to follow? Well, that’s it for this episode. I really appreciate you making it to this point with me. I want to ask you to do all the nice things. Leave a review, subscribe, make sure you’re, you know, all set up to be notified when new episodes drop and share this with someone sent, send it to and say, hey, listen, I’ve been listening to this guy and I think you should I think you should give him a listen. Or maybe it’s just one episode like, hey, we were just talking about this a couple of weeks ago and I heard this podcast and this guy talked about it and, you know, go, go, give it a listen. So please do that for me. I’d really appreciate it. And until next time, I look forward to reading your review in an upcoming podcast episode. Chase the Big Dream Lead with courage and safe travels, my friend by.